About This Episode
Jason Rockey, Montpelier Village Manager, a member of the AMP Board of Trustees, and Chair of the Legislative and Environmental Policy Committee; Rob Talley, President of Talley and Associates and an advocate for AMP and other organizations at the federal level; and Michael Beirne, AMP Vice President of External Affairs and OMEA Executive Director, join the podcast to discuss the importance of advocacy efforts for public power.
Transcription
The Public Power Line – S2 E3
AMP Member Training Center Expansion
Tracy: Public power systems are the heartbeat of a community, powering the homes, businesses, and schools across the country. But do you know all that goes into operating a public power system? So whether you are an AMP Member, employee, or partner organization, or you are simply passionate about the energy that powers our towns and cities, we invite you to plug in and listen to this podcast, where we explore the topics and issues most important to AMP Members and public power. This is The Public Power Line.
I am your host, Tracy Reimbold, with American Municipal Power, the nonprofit wholesale power and services provider for more than 130 public power communities across nine states. Former U.S. Senator Everett Dirksen once famously said, “When I feel the heat, I see the light.” In a few short words, Dirksen underscored the importance and value of hearing from their constituents on matters of importance back home.
For our discussion today, we are joined by Jason Rockey, Montpelier Village Manager, a member of the AMP Board of Trustees, and Chair of the Legislative and Environmental Policy Committee; Rob Talley, President of Talley and Associates and an advocate for AMP and other organizations at the federal level; and Michael Bierne, AMP Vice President of External Affairs and OMEA Executive Director. Jason, Rob, Michael — thank you all for joining us today.
Tracy: Michael, I would like to have you start us off with a brief explanation of what it means when we refer to advocacy, and then a little bit of information on the relationship between you and your team at AMP and our other two guests, Rob and Jason.
Michael: So, advocacy is, I guess, sort of defined generally as an activity by an individual or group that aims to influence decisions within political, economic or social institutions. We use it to advocate on behalf of public power, on behalf of all of our Members, before state and federal policy makers to influence positive outcomes for policy proposals that they are considering.
One thing that you may hear repeated, the quote is, “If you are not at the table, you are on the menu,” and that means that if you are not engaged, if you are not participatory during the policymaking process, you run the risk of either being left behind, or even worse, being targeted for negative or detrimental proposals. So, with respect to the other two gentlemen who are on the call with us today, they are sort of part of our comprehensive strategy that we utilize to represent Members before those, again, state and federal policy makers.
Tracy: Thank you, Michael. Now, Rob, I would like to jump over to you. Could you give us a general idea of how the advocacy process works, and help us to understand why it is so important that public power communities stay engaged?
Rob: Michael gave the Webster’s definition of lobbying. I think of it a little bit more simply. I think of lobbying as a mixture of sales and education. You know, you are part salesperson because you are providing your perspective with a positive spin on it, public power’s perspective with a positive spin on it. But it is also a large component of it is education. Just because a member of Congress received a majority or a plurality of the electoral vote in their district, that does not mean that he or she knows anything about electricity. And even if they know something about electricity, they probably know a lot less about public power’s role in providing electricity to its communities.
That education process — this advocacy — is an iterative process that has to happen continuously, because I have never met a member of Congress who chose not to vote on a bill or an amendment because they were unclear as to what the position of public power was. If we do not tell them, they are going to vote anyway. And we have to be in to these offices on a regular basis, communicating with them our perspectives, because we know that the rest of the interest groups that exist in our lovely country are all going to be in there as well.
And, so if we are, going back to Michael’s comment, if you are not at the table, you are on the menu. In this public policy arena, being at the table means providing the education and the information to members of Congress and to their staff in a digestible way, on a regular basis, so that when our issues come to a vote or when we need champions to begin to work other members of Congress, it is not a cold start, that they have that information available to them, they are comfortable with it, they can speak to our issues. That is really the importance of advocacy on behalf of public power.
Tracy: That’s a great answer, Rob. I think that sometimes that need for continuing education, continuing advocacy can get lost when you have worked in public power for a long time. And Mike, would you say that things function pretty much the same way at the state level or are there some differences?
Michael: At a high level, I would say generally yes, and that is, as Rob noted, it’s important to be in there and to educate them on the issues that are important to you. One of the differences between, I think, maybe congressional offices and most state offices is, in Congress they have a large staff, mostly professional, and the lawmakers rely very heavily on congressional staff. At the state level, they typically have a much smaller staff, maybe only one person, maybe two, maybe none.
So, it is important to recognize who you are dealing with, what your audience is, and tailoring messages that will resonate with them individually.
Tracy: That’s a great point. Jason, you have the unique perspective here of directly serving a public power community. From your perspective, what does effective advocacy look like coming from the local level and how do you and your community leaders stay engaged?
Jason: Thanks for that question and bringing me in there. I think I have the unique advantage of serving on the Board of Trustees, so my engagement is the easy part. We have got great staff at AMP and OMEA that do an excellent job of keeping Board members informed on bills that could potentially impact our communities. My challenge is keeping my local elected officials engaged.
Almost all of our elected officials here in Montpelier have full-time jobs, and they are all active in other organizations and groups in the communities, so they are really stretched pretty thin when it comes to what kind of causes they can get behind. So, my challenge is to be respectful of their time and filter the information that is coming into them.
I try not to be an alarmist and bring every little item to their attention, but I really try to focus on the things that are likely to make it to the floor for a vote. That way, when I do bring something to them, they know it is something they need to focus on. It is something that could have a direct impact on the Village of Montpelier and I need your attention on this.
Tracy: And Jason, what are some of the effective tools or resources that AMP Member officials could turn to for help, you know, just to help them identify those key pieces of legislation or key moments?
Jason: So for my elected officials, it is mostly me because I am getting all the information in from all these different organizations. AMP sends out weekly updates, Ohio Municipal League sends out weekly updates, the Ohio Municipal Electric Association sends out, I believe it is monthly updates. And all the information is in there, but it is not focused. It is a lot of noise. And while administrators like me appreciate all of the information, then I can determine what is important or help my people determine that. That is probably the most important thing.
They have access to the information, but whether they actually dig in because they think it is something that is going to affect our community, that is the part that I do not think they necessarily have the depth of knowledge to understand.
Tracy: So, Mike, could you talk a little bit more about the process and explain what an effective interaction with a lawmaker could look like in the advocacy effort?
Michael: I guess very generally, you know, when lawmakers are in town for session — whether it is Columbus or Harrisburg, Richmond, whatever the case may be — it is typically a very busy time. They have committees to attend, whether that is for purposes of drafting a bill or meeting with caucus individuals or trying to convince other lawmakers about a bill they are working on and having to spend time explaining it. They have meetings with stakeholders. They have meetings with constituents. So, they have very long days and they are very busy.
So, I guess leading into the second part of that about what makes it effective — because sometimes you only have a few minutes — so, an effective interaction is one that they will remember either very specifically about the issue or more broadly about to reach back out to you to seek, you know, your feedback on a particular issue.
Tracy: And Jason, I am sure coming from the local level, you have a different sort of relationship with the Statehouse. As you look at things from that local level, what has your personal experience been like working with lawmakers to advocate on behalf of Montpelier?
Jason: Yeah, a little bit different perspective here again than what Michael offered. The state level — in the eight years I have been here at the village — our elected officials have been pretty well engaged and responsive when I bring up questions or concerns about things that are going on. But again, I try not to bother them with the small stuff, so to speak.
I think at the local level, one of the most important things is building relationships with those representatives. When you know they are going to be in town, invite them to lunch. Get them together with the local elected officials. When there are important events going on in your community, make sure they know about it. Let them know when the Chamber of Commerce is having their annual dinner. That way, when they know your name as a person that is willing to help them do their job and not just someone that complains all the time, you are more likely to get an audience with them when it becomes important.
With federal representatives, you got to make sure when they are in town, or when they are close by, that someone from your community is there. To me, when they see your name or the name of your community on an email or an invitation, their first thought should not be, “Oh, geez, what are they complaining about now?” So, for me, the most important thing is building a relationship. And at least so far, I have had pretty good luck in doing that.
One of the biggest challenges is when you turn over an elected official and as someone you have not had the opportunity to deal with before, you have got to start that process all over again. And those relationships take time.
Tracy: Rob, let’s talk best practices. When you meet with a member of Congress or any one of their staffers, what would help to make these meetings more effective?
Rob: To me, the most effective meeting starts well before the actual meeting. Being prepared for the meeting, knowing who you are meeting with — not just the name of the person, but with today’s technology, it takes a fraction of a second to Google the name of the person that you are meeting with and getting just a bit of an understanding of who they are so that you can relate with them more easily. Knowing, having a really good understanding of the issue that you are going to talk to them about is important.
To me, the worst meeting is walking in cold, do not know who you’re meeting with. “Hi, I am here to meet with you. I was told to say the following things; here are the talking points.” That is a disaster of a meeting. A much better approach is to know who you are talking to, understand why you are taking the advocacy position you are taking and bringing it home to why the member of Congress should care.
An ideal meeting, at the end of the day, you secure the commitment from the member or from the staffer that they will do more background research, follow up with you, or in the most pressing circumstances, “Congressman, I need you to vote for this bill.” Secure that commitment.
Best practices include following up. It can be as simple as an email. And then, depending upon the circumstances, it is fully appropriate to follow up a week later, two weeks later, and simply, “Again, thanks for the time. We talked about the following. If you have any questions, we’re always available to help. If there’s anything I can do, let me know.”
Those are critical things to make the time of the member of Congress or the staffer that you are working with — it means their time is not wasted. And importantly, it means your time is not wasted, because you have thrown away 30 minutes if you have gone in with that first scenario that I talked about and just said, “Hey, I’ve been told to give you this. I don’t know what it means.” That is not going to be a productive use of folks’ time. And it is not a heavy lift, generally, to get to that more effective approach.
Tracy: All right, well, I think this has been an excellent discussion, and we have covered some important information today. To close us out, I would like to ask each of you to take a look forward with one final question. If our listeners were to take one thing away from this particular episode, what do you hope that would be? Rob, let’s go ahead and start with you.
Rob: The one takeaway that would be most constructive from my perspective, is for those who listen to this podcast to realize that, while you have a professional team at AMP, you, the listener, are the asset for public power. Your willingness to engage and intervene and the advocacy at the local, state, and federal level are really what is the power of public power. And while Michael, Jason, the team that AMP has pulled together is an exceptionally talented crew, you are what brings everything home. And that, I would hope, is what people take away.
Tracy: Jason, same question to you. What would you hope our listeners take away from this episode?
Jason: So, from the local perspective, the most important thing for me would be to not be the person that is thought of as a complainer. If you are only talking to your elected officials from the perspective of you are on a different side of this than I am, you are not going to be effective. But if you have built a relationship and they respect you as someone who is informative and an expert on whatever it is you are talking about, you can have some sway with them.
But maybe at higher levels, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I think at the local level, it is the person or the group that has built the best relationship is the one that is going to get what they want.
Tracy: And Mike, what would you like our listeners to take away from this episode?
Michael: I think the most important thing is to engage. Be part of the discussion. As Jason noted, do not be in there complaining. Do not be in there only when they are getting ready to vote on a bill. And, as Rob noted, this is a team effort. We can go in there and meet and educate lawmakers and their staff all the time, but at the end of the day, in many cases, they want to know how it impacts their community — their district — and nobody is better able to tell that story than community officials.
So, I guess my bit of advice is what I started with, which is, “If you are not at the table, you are on the menu.”
Tracy: Great answers. I would just add, for anyone listening who needs more information and more assistance, you can always lean on AMP. If you have questions about legislation, concerns about regulations, whatever it might be, you are always encouraged to reach out to AMP.
Jason, Michael, Rob, thank you all again for joining us today and taking the time to talk a little bit about the importance of advocacy in public power.
I’m Tracy Reimbold, your host for The Public Power Line, where we explore the topics and issues most important to AMP Members and public power. If you like what you’ve heard on The Public Power Line podcast, please share it and subscribe so you do not miss future episodes. Search for The Public Power Line wherever you get your podcast. This podcast is produced by Zachary Hoffman, AMP’s Manager of Communications and Publications. If you have ideas for future podcasts, please reach out to AMP’s Communications Team at [email protected].